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About Trevor

I have lived in Costa Rica for 14 years and have been active in real estate development over that period and construction in general. I am a qualified Journeyman carpenter and cabinetmaker from Canada. My current focus project is building custom green homes and housing packages all built out of Magnesium Oxide SIPs.

Comments

ICF’s – Insulated Concrete Forms – Viable option for Costa Rica or is it greenwashing BS? — 14 Comments

  1. Thanks Trevor for the comparison between ICF (insulated concrete walls)and SIP’s panels.

    This said, and I don’t want to add oil in fire after this nice article, what do you think of the Panel 3D of Panacor? Would that system be a kind of compromise between blocks and SIP’s? I mean not outstanding as the SIP but certainly better than the cinder blocks?

    I would really appreciate your critical mind on this system!

    Roger

    • Roger thanks for great questions and an inquiring mind hence here is a long answer to your questions.
      Explain to me what 3D is as I don’t know what this is in simple language as that is a trade name not a real name. I suspect that their version of a Coventec panel which consists if a wire frame work around styrofoam blocks that is then mortared. This I did include in my ICF comparison on the weight factors but if this is what your question is really about then I need to add more detail to explain such. We beat out a Coventec panel system on a 140 unit condo by well over $20,000 so lets end any fallacy that such a system is cheaper. It sure as hell is not faster nor is it as consistent as you have guys spreading out mortar manually (which is totally not competitive) or blowing on mortar as they would have in this case either way that does not compare to an assembly line process that produces panels of equal sizes any and every day of the year. This method does however appease the person of a concrete mindset since its structural base is still hinged upon the use of cement but at half weight.

      This same mindset is what lead to my kicking our structural engineer Orlando Gei off of our job in Jaco as he was still thinking and doing shit in the old world. Like one foot on the concrete pier and one in the coventec boat which as I say can only lead to swimming. Either believe completely in your technology or never switch. This I see prevalent in all Tico engineering they way overkill even after they have supposedly switched yet part of their mind never really comes with them.

      Coventec is a better solution than block that I will give it plus it has an insulated core so it does not amount to putting a screen door on a submarine as a concrete home at the beach is without question. However its economics and efficiency just do not and cannot compete with a fully panelized system like steel or SIPs do!

      I know they also make SIPs of a quality that sucks since they use crappy environmentally offensive cement board. Whose skins by the way actually costs more than our MgO skins because we can use a much thinner board to get the same strength as the base product is so much better than anything in a cement board. They also use a metal connector system and thousands of screws whereas I know a glued together home using our glu-lams will far outperform such under stress due to the 100% bond versus pressure points at each screw supported by crap cement board. That is like comparing a wheelbarrow to a dump truck.

      Now many will argue with me simply because they are invested in a fundamentally bad product so they do not want to hear of another material. That would be like discussing organic farming with Monsatano! Not???

      Also most have never worked with both so they have no idea of the apple and orange comparison. Now MgO does not equal wood in malleability but it is at least half way between its two major competitors wood based sheets (OSB & plywood) and cement board crap. FYI if a sheet of fibrolite subfloor simply falls over on the job site it will typically break into 2 to 3 pieces and at 34,000 col that royally sucks. Our MgO is 30% – 40% lighter so much easier to handle and it is not like handling crystal. We also tongue and groove all flooring which makes a massive difference in its structural solidness but you cannot machine cement boards to even dream of doing this. At this point we charge a bit less for our T&G than they sell the standard Fibrolite crap flooring for.

      However here for most people lacking this product access and knowledge there just is no other choice for everyone else if they don’t want to take the chance on hongos or termites attacking plywood subfloor. MgO is simply the best and safest economical alternative there us however its one problem is only combating a very large cartel industry that is invested in cement. If all you have is a hammer everything looks pretty much like a nail:-). With an open mind backed up with experience there is no argument as to which direction one will find most beneficial.

      Trevor

  2. My wife and I recently had the opportunity to meet with Trevor and Michael at a build site in Uvita. I was very pleased with the technology being employed(SIP)along with correct electrical and plumbing techniques being used. We have property in Ojochal and over the course of the last 3 years I’ve visited a number of homes in the construction phase; needless to say I was never impressed do to poor building practices(plumbing, electrical, roof). Even some of the nicer homes all showed signs of cracks in the concrete walls and ceramic tile floors after an earthquake. Another consideration is how to prevent mold formation in the tropics. I believe the building technology Trevor is employing is of a much higher standard and well suited for the climate and environmental conditions of Costa Rica. My wife and I plan on building a home sometime in 2016 and look forward to working with Trevor and Michael.

    • Thank you Rick and Valerie,
      It was indeed a pleasure to share our first home of this generation with you.
      We can’t wait for it to be your turn to have a home started.

      Trevor

  3. Re.: comment to your 09 July 2014 post.

    Like you, I do not see the “green” of using ICF’s (Insulated Concrete Forms)

    Alain

  4. Having been General Contractor in the states 30 years and after doing some quick math I have determined that I have poured enough concrete to cover Costa Rica with a 6 inch slab. I have learned many lessons, 1. Green is the color of the plants and forest..green building is plan common sense, its been around long before green builders sprouted up on every corner…2. Construction Sucks and finally Trevor has developed a method of construction that works in this country and has taken the the time to pass this along to anyone who has even a simlpe questions on what finish to use on a floor…this take time and a lot more patience than I could possibly muster….and for those who want to do battle please go back to wherever you came from and carry as many concert block as can with you …Lex

  5. Trevor thank you for educating your readers and informing those who do not want to know the truth about green washing. Insulated concrete forms (ICF’s) are not a green product . It is only an energy effient construction methodology . It is ideal for the cold winter and humid summers in Canada it provides a dryer basement if installed correctly with the proper waterproof membrane and parging. It is the only foundation system I use here in Canada on my clients projects. I only promote it as the most practical and energy efficient foundation or complete house based on the region of the world I build. Using ICF in Costa Rica would be an insane choice and a waste of money and not green.You would be better off giving the ICF & concrete material costs to the earthquake rescue fund if there is one .
    I had the opportunity to visit Trevor and Michael in Costa Rica in June for a week. I’ve been a design/build builder for 30 yrs, and you cannot bull shit me, client or builder. I watched the crew at the Uvita build site cut and frame pre stained teak rafters like fine cabinetry, absolutely top notch team work .
    These guys know how to build houses, and they get a thumbs up from me just for protecting the entire house with a tarp and bamboo post and beams. How many builders have you seen do that in the rainy season. That’s preparation and keeping the clients money/investment protected as well as helping the job to stay on schedule.
    If you plan on building in Costa Rica get on a plane and meet with Trevor and Michael before you buy property .
    Listen to Trevor, the SIP system they build with is the most practical, green, and energy efficient product to use building a house in Costa Rica.
    David Kilby
    Kilby Design/Build. (Canada)

    • David,
      Thanks for your comments and most valuable entry into our little debate over the use of ICF’s in a tropical climate.. The big take away here for our readers, with your entry into this debate, was started by Ed regarding his claim that Green Building and ICF’s can or should exist in the same sentence. Just to ensure no one misses the big point here… David uses this product extensively in Canada, north east of Toronto for a number of reasons as he states but none of which happen to be its Green component, which does not exist. Hence he hardly has an axe to grind with the product in general HOWEVER that relates to its use in a Canadian winter. What one cannot assume is that you can take any product out of a winter climate and transplant that into the tropics with equal results or using the same reasoning or should I say the lack there of. Any such supposition is nothing short of preposterous.

      Thanks for your visit to us in June. Our crew had a lot of fun working with you on site and helping you get a crash course on construction Spanish.

      We look forward to your return in December as you escape that wonderful Canadian winter experience.

      Highest Regards,

      Trevor

  6. Hello Trevor;
    My husband and I have a building lot in a gated community approximately 2 km north of Samara (Guanacaste region). We are planning to build a home on the lot within the next few years. The type of home we envision has a clean contemporary design with a focus on energy efficiency. Like most people, cost efficiency will also be an important consideration as will construction speed. I am intrigued with your discussion about SIP panels and am wondering if you know a good contractor in the Samara area that is familiar with SIP construction that you would recommend. Also, it would be helpful to know your opinion on the cost of using SIP vs conventional concrete or wood for home construction in Costa Rica.
    Thanks for any info you can provide on this!

  7. Hi,

    Loved the read. I don’t know to much about a lot of things so forgive my ignorance. I have done a little investigation however into the Panacor products. From what I have seen they are using an exterior finish on both sides of the panel that is made from Mg.

    I know someone in San Vito that has had great success with his cabinas. The cost was less far less than standard construction and since they use a Mg finish it seems much of your arguments above have been negated.

    I’d be interested in knowing if you have actually looked it these panels or not. I’m not really sure how the Panacor 3D panel is or why it is different than the Panel-I they also manufacture IN Costa Rica. I’d really like a fair evaluation since I am considering the Panel-I. If I could post a link I would but you can search Panacor Costa Rica and find them. They also have videos on youtube in which they show a small home being constructed.

    Best regards,

    Ken

    • Ken,
      Unless there has been a drastic change of attitude and knowledge level they are not using MgO but Plycems Plyrock cement board. During our final meeting with them 3 plus years ago they advised us they would no longer use MgO as they had had too many quality issues. Which may well have been the case as the only MgO products I have seen in this country other than those we have brought in are third rate crap flogged by brokers that could care less. We use what is most likely the most expensive sheets and panels out of China simply because of quality issues and that these products are the only ones in the world to have passed this level of moisture resistance and certified by ASTM standards as well as the Australia and New Zealand certifications that are just plain anal. Now the question remains if they have switched back then whose board are they using as there is significant differences in quality standards?

      FYI when Steve came to visit us here in Costa Rica I did contact them again advising them that I had one of a handful of the world’s leading experts in MgO and they would not even give us a meeting time. That does not make you naive that makes you just plain stupid! When living in a country with such a small population base having a leading expert in anything is something that one should fawn over not deny without any opportunity what so ever. Hence my attitude towards this company is verrry poor with my history with them nor do I think the probability of it being run by anyone with real brains is extremely unlikely. There is more details that I shall not bore you with as to how they behaved when we were perspective clients of theirs but it is their behaviour that directly caused me to go scour the planet and establish the relationship with Steve Maraskel and MgO Board Corp.

      Other than that I have a client who used their products (contracted prior to my meeting him) and I followed his build that was such a disgusting mish mash of engineering cluelessness that demonstrated a general lack of understanding/comprehension of light weight and SIP construction in general. I also do not like their metal connector system on a basis of not being a green product but then someone who will use cement board has no capacity to even begin to understand what makes green and what does not. Also in a severe earthquake situation our methods would vastly outperform thiers because everything we do is glued together which is what makes a true monolithic structure, dry screwing simply does not do that. All our glue also drastically affects our two greatest and ever present enemies, rain and bugs, neither gets through our Manisbond barrier.

      Standing on a job site would do far more for you than anything I can begin to write but following our home diaries does indeed help. Anyone is more than welcome to show up on one of our jobsites at any time.

      Cost comparisons are in the end somewhat irrelevant as for our clients the issue is will the system remove the proverbial problems and low quality and high maintenance issues that come with the typical Tico home, all of which comes back to bite the owner in the ass down the road. Also what I keep preaching is a green high quality home is a whole system not just about any single component as if the whole orchestra is not on the same tune then it is not going to be beautiful music. Eg. I inspected a home being built by a company who licensed a verrrry expensive rolled stud system brought in from New Zealand yet they still used crap PVC water line and their electrical system would not pass any electrical code, 35% more steel used than needed and then they used sheetrock/gypsum! Well in the tropics I find that rather ludicrous as its service life is just plain horrible. Yes it is cheap at install but not a pretty picture for the owner going down the road. Conversely I have a piece of MgO panel I put in a bucket of water in Oct. 2013 so over two years swimming and it has not grown anything (a remarkable feat in mold hell), flaked or deteriorated or swollen basically nothing has happened. No it is not cheap like sheet rock yet it is cheap compared to anything out there that is water resistant! At any rate talking about a high tech structure without equal matching mechanical, electrical and septic back up systems is indeed a fools game.

      Hope that helps in a bit of history and reality of comparing systems.

      Trevor Chilton

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